We aren't going to go completely off of the map. The impending Gallente invasion looks like it might be delayed. The systems that have been lost are the ones that are not 'home systems'. There are also quite a few Minmatar systems that are up there in terms of contested percentage.

As bad as T1 is its nowhere close to the quadruple priced debacle it was prior to Oct 22. If isk is a concern create jump clones around the battlefield. Dedicate one day a week to plexing a backwater system for yourself. At T2 I can pull in 400k a day. T1 should still net you 200k. You have a large selection of systems to plex as well so you wint be interrupted often.

I havn't done any math tbh.

But you get significantly more pr lp

But you're right there is probably some difference



Not enough to whine about though.. HTFU and be better?

Lets do some look-ups shall we .. http://eve-central.com/ got you covered!
Navy Dominix: 270M
Navy Armageddon: 300M

Navy Megathron: 410M
Navy Apocalypse: 500M

Why yes you are absolutely right, Amarr LP is indeed worth more .. oh why did I not see that, nothing to worry about at all .. my beautiful teeth gnashed to dust for no reason!!

Question: Is <25% price advantage worth getting 200+% less LP to barter with in the first place?

Again, the "worth more" is a fairytale. Would you like to try again?

I love it.


I can't wait till the minmatar and the gallente own 100% of the WZ. That gives me a whole bucketload of low sec I can fly and pirate and run backwater plex's. I'll make more than enough to fund whatever I want and not worry about losing stuff. The market will bomb for Min/Gal fw items and my amarr one will become like gold.

Get on it Min/Gal pilots!


And for the 'losers'. Get off your arses and do something about it rather than whine on the forums. Or just pack up and swap sides if isk grinding is all you do FW for !

Lots of good stuff here, but if we keep to the headline of this post, my simple argument is that regardless of LP value of items in the store the difference between a fraction being at T1 and this in turns means that the other fraction being T3 or higher is simply too big!

To Cynthia Nezmor; I played for over 10 hours yesterday, but I was not spinning around a button, its not my kind of fun to sit still for 10-20 minutes and do nothing! Indeed now and then a plex would be taken and I do try and also keep this objective in mind, but that's not the primary focus when you pvp. The incentive to wait an extra 5-10 minutes in a system before moving on is none-existent in a T1, its already very low with just 2-3 people in the plex at T2. We filled 2 pages Saturday killboard so I do think we help with the war effort ("arsed to actually play FW") and I did not have WCS fitted and I did loss a number of ships in the process. So at the odd time I do get a plex, it would be nice to not get minus %50.PS: I've lead fleets and Alliances since 2003 so while an old dog still can learn new tricks please don't start with the insults I really can't be asked to go that low

My concern here is not for those who only do LP in WCS ships, they have an easy life, I could not give a damn. Where it does impact me is that the war is won by this activity more than by fighting. It is also wrong that the side with the fewest pilots are being snowballed not only by the enemy numbers, but in turn punished in there option to earn isk.

The in-pact on PVP funding is HUGE!

Please ask yourself this: When was the last time you saw a Minmatar fleet of 10 x Fleet Stabbers compared with when you last saw an Amarr fleet of 10 x Navy Omen's? The answer is resent and newer. I rest my case.

just curious: why be part of one militia and put alt into another to make ISK? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to switch parties completely?

You don't want to fight for faction. You just want ISK. So join winning side and have fun.

I have 3 billion in cash, several billion in ships, and 2.4 million LP. If you are poor in FW you are doing it wrong.

You must really miss the 450mill isk that the winning side won before the changes to the tier system

What are you talking about it is more unfair now?

I fought in FW after inferno once nulli secunda came along....when was Amarr going to cash out? when could they hit T4 without some major force helping them? Minnies sat at T3 at all times making isk equal to T2 is right now (IE right now its easier for anyone to make isk)

Then every month or so for a weekend they would push to T5 and make massive isk sellouts...... making isk hand over fist..... At T4 cashouts I was pulling in 3500-4500 isk per LP easy, at T5 is would be around 10k isk per LP cuz you also cut down the isk cost on the items, a huge boon when looking at your cost, and your cost over non FW LP stores

The real issue was that at T1 your milita could zero isk! nothing.....with the LP store prices quadruple, including the few million isk to cash out say, Faction Ammo.....you lost money on most cashouts!!!

At T2 you were lucky to earn 350-500 isk per LP....lucky! and were limited to items that had very little or no isk payment, cuz doubling that really hit the overall profit

Now at T1, any militia can earn 30-50m isk an hour, before at T1, you made zero off your isk

the new tier system is much much better

The interesting thing to me right now is that all sides are racking up similar VP numbers - no matter what the Tier level is.

This "inconvenient truth" hurts all these arguments on how the Tier system is "evil" and "game breaking". But whatever.

But you wouldn't know because you never log in and play the game.

Really. Let the people who log in and actually play the game make and defend suggestions about how to change FW. There's not need for you forum whores to continually contaminate every FW thread.

There is almost no gap between T2 and T4 right now...... the price of LPs are so low that when Minnies are at T3 and Amarr is at T2 you make better isk as Amarr, not much, its almost even, about 2-5 mill more per hour

At Minnie T4 and Amarr T2, minnies earn around 15-25m more per hour, yes thats a good chunk of change, but they are winning and need a reward

As Amarr I get 1425 isk per LP on faction Battleships that can move my LPs in massive ammounts quickly....if I take smaller items like Faction Ammo or Datacores its around 1600-1800 isk per LP and still moves quickly

If i take a few select specialty items that dont move well and or need tags I can move a few LP and earn up to 2900 isk per LP (thats the best item I have so far)

Minnies BS sales net you around 900-1100 isk per LP, datacores is in the high 800s to maybe 1000 if your lucky

With the minnies items selling for around 40-60% less per LP the 75% evens out, and at 150% yes they make more isk, but not much, and have 3 times the items to hual and move about.

It is *so much better* than it used to be. Rats are balanced for all factions, the amount of pvp I get in plexes is waaay up from the old days. All factions can make money (unlike T1 used to have an INCREASE in the ISK cost for items, making many items cheaper to buy them on the market from high sec bears even if the LP was free). You can make money plexing, in a pvp ship, instead of having to switch between pvp and pve fits. The downtime advantage is a lot less than what it used to be.

Is it perfect? No. But it's so so much better than it used to be. And there are more changes in the pipeline (like the timer counting down when the button isn't contested) that will make it even better.

I logged in last night and zero fights were given..

They did curb the farming with this patch - caldari were hitting 70k VP/day, even broke 100 VP/day in the previous iteration. Now we're seeing it top out around 20k vp/day if things are really active.

The sea saw affect isn't there, but honestly, I don't think it was that strong. The only reason we had a see-saw is because of the diagonal militias being powerful. If both gal/min or cal/amarr had gained the upper hand, then I think that the winning militias would have just had their dread alts to pop their own bunkers (I know the gals and minnies were working on a few)..

Amarr only got their cash out because of Nulli.

Gallente only got their cash out because the minmatar came over.

The minmatar and caldari farmers were just too strong otherwise.



TL;DR the farming was greatly reduced from the previous iteration to this one..

Here I will disagree with you. Look at my killboard yesterday:

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=324379&m=1&y=2013

Whenever I undocked and roamed around, I was getting fight after fight after fight. Are there gaps? yes. But it's a weekend, so there's an hour phone call with the mother, time to make some lunch, then "omg take out the trash", a bit of laundry, a quick drive to get some takeout for my wife and I for dinner (and some mandatory face time), bio breaks, some forum warrioring, some eft warrioing arguing with corpmates. Not to mention, some fights where I'm fighting 1v4, 1v5 often end up with me getting 0 kills and barely escaping, which means no killmails at all. A fight doesn't always result in a mail.

But there really is a pretty constant stream of fights to be had, and I think my killboard backs me up on that.

But everyone wanted the LP for plexing (both o-plex and d-plex) We got what was asked for and still people complain......




Hmmm......

1) Meh. Mechanics support good pvp. What is YOUR definition of good fights?

2) This is YOUR issue NOT CCP's

3) No it's not thier job to get YOU GF's. They give you the sandbox and mechanics. It's up to YOU to get the fights not CCP.


Mate it sounds like you are playing the wrong game. Try guild wars or such.

The two largest and most experienced Minmatar alliances still fight as if the war zone is only 30 systems when in truth it has expanded to the full 70. That always helps. 'Home systems' are also an archaic idea in FW. You have to be willing to move. System ownership is directly related to your presence in the area. The Minmatar can sally forth from mother Arzad to Sosan or Tararan, conquer them, and retire back to their home system as much as they want. Because they don't live in Sosan or Tararan those conquests are fleeting. When fighting for Dal or Vard we learned that Iron Oxide could commit to 5 hours of deplexing a day on weekdays. That equated into 10% contested movement that we would have to offset. It was a simple mathematical equation because they did not have an immediate presence in Dal.

I suspect that large alliances in FW are inefficient. Yes you can project overwhelming power in an area for a period of time. But as I pointed out above, you can work around that. It also doesn't work too well when there are always 5 or so fires to put out. I hope in this regard at least CCP is taking notes for Null Sec.

Oh, this is so unfair. First, a big, bad 0.0 alliance has invaded our space, and now we have to deal with all of these Amarr farmers coming over to our space. The horror. FW is a broken mess. I am going to start 10 topics on the forums saying the same thing!